Thursday, August 9, 2007
Nature vs Nurture, Learning vs Instinct
Learning vs Instinct (sometimes characterised as Innateness vs Learning, or Genes vs Environment, etc). People, again, things are NOT THIS SIMPLE. The above is a false dichotomy. There are extremely inflexible learnt behaviours, for instance. And then there's epigenetics, the inheritence of genetic changes due to environmental cues... Probe a little deeper and stop vascillating between two extremes, both of which are wrong. Matt Ridley's NATURE VIA NURTURE might be a good place to start
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It's not as simple as instinct = that produced by genes, of course.
Nor is learning dependent only upon what the environment is like.
But instinct/learning and genes/environment are related debates.
For example, if dogs and humans are born with certain different instincts that become apparent from a very early age, then this is due to genetics. Or, say, the instinct of the kangaroo when born to crawl away from the pouch toward mother's mouth.
Various people claim that more or less of our behaviours and abilities are 'instinctual', genetically determined traits that become manifest without any learning or priming from the environment. There are various more technical and precise ways of stating this, though, so if I'm not being clear here, let me know.
I'm not sure about "imprinted memories", though. WHat I was referring to when I mentioned epigenetics is the occurence of events in the environment which activate or deactivate genes in an organism, many of which will stay in their new state in the offspring of that organism.
You don't really believe in instincts??
Wtf, that's extremely...radical, and I have to say, I think that statement is absurd. I'm really surprised to hear it.
Animals display so many millions of behaviours they couldn't possibly have learnt from any other animal. Evidence for instincts abounds.
Yes, I've raised animals from birth before...for example, without seeing another dog do this, my dog instinctively chases and attacks small prey.
Learning is a good way of discovering how to do something, but learning by itself will not always allow a species to survive. It is simply not efficient enough under many circumstances, so animals need some instincts hardwired in.
On a side note, I find it interesting to note that us humans are often often called the learning species, because we remain dysfunctional until quite a late age.
When a chimp is born, it can pretty much immediately move about effectively and starts exploring with things.
Huh?
You seem to acknowledge in one breath that, yes, we have instincts...and in another, deny this. I'm more than a little confused.
You say things like "young are naturally curious and playful"... and "because that's just what they do..."
And...
NO, NO, NO, the things you mention, can't be put ascribed to learning. Do you also think the thirst for water was learnt?
You really ought to also consider more generally how difficult it would be to survive if everything had to be learnt. Doing so might make your hypothesis that all is learnt seem to be extremely improbable.
It's really not difficult to see why creatures born with structures in their brain which direct their earlier activities at least until they've had time to learn more have a significant evolutionary advantage over those that learn everything at the start
I find chipazoid's discourse catty, dismissive and condescending. Disregarding all the scientific evidence indicating that many animals do, in fact, have "instincts" (innate knowledge) seems extremely irresponsible. For instance, in one experiment a male sickleback fish was raised apart from any other of its kind. It attacked pieces of wood with painted red bottoms because it looked like other male sicklebacks. This fish did not learn from other sicklebacks that this was the appropriate behavior, nor did it have any provocation that would cause it to attack (it's a stationary piece of wood, obviously not a threat nor food). Also, if you rear a white-crowned sparrow in isolation, it will still sing a similar song. How does it know? It didn't learn it from anything else. Some species of antelope learn to run (before walk) immediately after birth as a defense mechanism against predators. Unless every single baby was being attacked right away, there would be no need for this characteristic to appear so uniformly throughout the species. Babies wouldn't know fear. By implying that they would, you are admitting the existence of instinct. These are just a few of the vast examples of instinct throughout nature. They are not characteristics exhibited to meet physiological needs, they are idiosyncratic behaviors that give these animals an edge to survive. You can try to rationalize this all you want but the evidence speaks against you. Not every case of birth instinct can be written off as "well don't you think the baby was just sitting around and figured out the key to survival?"
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